in computer science. >> yes. >> and you are now railing against computer science. >> no, no, no, i am not. >> you are, you are saying, look, we can't trust computer science. >> no, no, no, i trust computer science and i trust computers,. >> rose: no you don't, you don't trust them if you say we have to have paper, you don't. >> well, paper with computers. >> rose: right okay but you have to have the paper, you don't trust the computers alone. >> that's right, that's right. >> but i trust the technology if used properly and there is a place for technology in the voting and the problem is we brought the technology into our voting system before we understood what needed to be done an how to do it right, that's main issue and we need to change that, we need to do it properly, we can facilitate and actually go a better job using technology than we did before, because there are better ways of checking but we need to do it properly, we are not going it properly. >> what is the process of change? herds, how would you go about developing a public understanding of this so that there will be a g